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Post by TribeFanInAZ on Jan 13, 2008 22:18:03 GMT -5
White Sox and Red Sox have agreed to a trade:
White Sox receive: - Pick 7.10 - Pick 8.7
Red Sox receive: - White Sox 2nd Round Minors Pick
Ward to confirm...
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Post by wardrussellma on Jan 14, 2008 13:55:32 GMT -5
White Sox confirm. Thanks.
Ward
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Post by TribeFanInAZ on Jan 14, 2008 15:23:52 GMT -5
A quick note on Asdrubal Cabrera... It is Haggstown's decision to make, as it is his league. I have temporarily frozen the Minor League Keeper thread, so that Haggstown can see how such players were shown on his roster.
In my opinion, winker may have misinterpreted the rules compared to my own understanding of them.
This is regarding the whole rule about "call-ups" from a previous year who: a.) Exceed the minimum at-bats, innings, or appearances AND b.) Make their team's Opening Day roster
Some of the intent of these rules is to prevent owners from stashing a guy in the minors forever. It is also quite confusing if a guy is in Yahoo's database, but not on their owner's roster.
When winker reviewed his 20-man minor league list prior to the draft, it should have included guys like Franklin Gutierrez and Asdrubal Cabrera...
The rule that incorporates A & B above is really in effect once the season starts. So, Gutz and Cabrera should have gone into the 2008 season on Winker's Minor League Keeper List. Then, once the season starts and they have made the Opening Day roster, they would have to be promoted because they have exceeded the at-bats threshold. At this time, Winker would drop someone to add those players OR he would allow them to become major league free agents.
Assuming they are added to his majors roster or become free agents, winker would now have open slots on his minor league protected list to protect other players such as the 2006 draftees that now need to be protected.
I will face the same situation with Craig Hansen, Jonathan Sanchez, and Kendry Morales this season. I will likely forfeit their rights, so that I don't have to add them to my majors roster and I will use the open slots on my minors list for 2006 draftees like Justin Masterson and Aaron Bates.
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Post by winker on Jan 14, 2008 15:35:40 GMT -5
To deal with the situation of Asdrubal & others, I asked the commish how to handle the situation. His response was:
In a perfect world...it probably would be smart to go thru our minor league systems now and tag those that need a promotion.
But time is not on our side.....sounds like a song or close to it........anyway, we'll do that after the major league draft and after the season starts - so we know who is and who is not on the major league rosters......
So we are doing the 20 keepers from last year's end of the season roster. That is how I determined my keepers, and that is how I did my drafting. This is no time to change what Haggs responded to me in his PM. If a change in the way this is handled needs to be made, it needs to be done before next season's draft.
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Post by osbornetorun1 on Jan 14, 2008 15:50:20 GMT -5
Perhaps the Tribe should be forced to expose players on his 20-man protected list (ie. drop 1 player for each of the players that would have needed to be kept on the list or placed on his active keeper roster before the draft). If guys like Cabrera are more important to him than one of the other 20 that is on his list, remove that player immediately.
While intentional or not, it seems that the Tribe has in fact been allowed to have a larger keeper list (either major or minor however you want to look at it) than the rest of us. And I think it's fair that this be corrected immediately. I'm not so hard nosed as to say he shouldn't be given the chance to tweak is 20-minor league keepers to move guys like Cabrera, Bourn, Gutierrez, and Jones back "on" while at the same time taking others "off" on a 1-for-1 basis. But he should, in the spirit of fair play, have to make the choice(s) now I believe to make those players no longer protected eligible for drafting. I can say for sure that I looked at his list and thought these players were protected not realizing that in fact they should have been on the 20-man protected list since I don't believe any of them were drafted (but I could be wrong as I didn't check this for sure) in either '06 or '07 MLB amateur drafts.
My voice for what it's worth as a league member.
-Todd (Cards)
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Post by HaggsTown on Jan 14, 2008 15:50:43 GMT -5
To deal with the situation of Asdrubal & others, I asked the commish how to handle the situation. His response was: In a perfect world...it probably would be smart to go thru our minor league systems now and tag those that need a promotion.
But time is not on our side.....sounds like a song or close to it........anyway, we'll do that after the major league draft and after the season starts - so we know who is and who is not on the major league rosters......
So we are doing the 20 keepers from last year's end of the season roster. That is how I determined my keepers, and that is how I did my drafting. This is no time to change what Haggs responded to me in his PM. If a change in the way this is handled needs to be made, it needs to be done before next season's draft. This is true. Although, Asdrubal Cabrera and the other prospects did end the season as one of your 20 minor league protected list - then that's where he stays until you add him to your roster and then put another prospect on your 20 man minor league keeper list to take his spot. This is the scenario and how the Rule of 7b came into place last year. People didn't have guys protected or did have them protected and wasn't bringing them up until they wanted to. And could just stash them away. For following years we will adjust this, but Cabrera is an Indians' prospect. As the rules states now, Once The Season Starts, we'll give everyone like 7-8 days or whatever and figure out who needs to be up on rosters going by Rule 7b. Wink would have to then displace 4 of his minor league keepers, until the 1st week of the season, to make room for Cabrera, Gutz et al.
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Post by osbornetorun1 on Jan 14, 2008 15:51:16 GMT -5
Whatever you decide is fine, but let's keep this draft moving!!!
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Post by osbornetorun1 on Jan 14, 2008 15:53:50 GMT -5
Haggs, your ruling in essence gives the Tribe a 24-man keeper list which I don't agree is acceptable. He should have to immediately cut 4 players to be in sync with the rest of us that only kept the legal 20 and didn't have a "caveat" category of players like the Tribe did.
As I stated above, it's not that he cannot keep Cabrera and the other 3 he's listed in the "caveat" category, but 4 of his 20-man list should be dropped immediately before we continue the draft to be fair, IMO.
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Post by HaggsTown on Jan 14, 2008 16:00:07 GMT -5
I didn't say he gets a 24 man minor league keeper list. What I meant out of what I wrote above, was that if Asdrubal Cabrera and the others (which they did) finished the season on the keeper list, then that's where they should be (unless he puts them on his major league roster) and he would have to make room by taking off 4 others ---- until the 1st week of the season and he could adjust it when he has open slots -- which we all can do --- by the ruling of 7b.
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Post by osbornetorun1 on Jan 14, 2008 16:02:01 GMT -5
My point was and I believe we are in agreement that he must make the changes now and now after the season starts. If those 4 are on his 20-man keeper list, then 4 others must be removed to get him to the 20 player limit. Cool. Now back to the draft The D-Rays are back on the clock.....
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Post by HaggsTown on Jan 14, 2008 16:04:40 GMT -5
Yes, Todd, you are correct. Wink just needs to make a decision, but I think his decision will be to adjus the minor league keeper list and then re-adjust it once the season starts and fill any open slots.
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Post by zemtech on Jan 14, 2008 16:08:13 GMT -5
Can we get this draft going again?
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Post by HaggsTown on Jan 14, 2008 16:13:13 GMT -5
This question was sent to me by Winker:
question « Message sent on Yesterday at 7:03am »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These 2 rules seem to contradict:
From discussion thread: 7b. if a player is called up at any point during the season and he is not listed on the major league roster or on the minor league keeper list of that team in the CSC league, then he will need to attain 1.) 130 at-bats 2.) 50 innings pitched 3.) 30 appearances the previous season to be eligible for another team to claim him
From minor keeper thread: 5.) Any "prospect" called up AFTER Opening Day can be added to your 30-man roster, but does not have to be added to the 30-man roster. However, since this player has reached the Majors, they MUST now be included in your 20-man Minor League protected list regardless of their draft year.
For example, if your Josh Vitters - 3B (who doesn't need to be protected until 2009) had been called up to the majors on the last day of the 2007 season to play one game (as a reward for signing), would he then have to go on your 20 man protected list as per #5 above, or could he stay on your "no need to protect until 2009" list, as per #7 above.
The minor league thread #5 was edited and the language I was not aware of. And it's ruling will be going forward for this upcoming year. If anybody has any questions, please ask.
Basically, if a guy is now brought up to the majors, regardless of what year he signed or was drafted, then he either needs to be added to the major league roster or added to the minor league keeper roster ---- this is because so we as a group don't just snatch up somebody else's prospect if we don't see them listed somewhere. But if a guy was brought up for one day and then sent back down --- I think it would be a bit helpful, and gentlemenly, if we tried to give them a bit of slack and give them ample enough time to put them on a list.
So this ruling is going forward for this coming year and forward.
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Post by winker on Jan 14, 2008 16:13:17 GMT -5
I would be happy to drop the 4 Cleveland Indian prospects that I added to my 20 minor league list, once I labeled Cabrera etal. as players that will move to the major league roster when the season starts. Those players that will be moving up, were labeled after I got the above ruling from Haggs. The original players had been on 20 prior to Haggs message. (I also included Bourn after I traded for him off of Phillies minor list, even though he does not yet have 130 ABs.)
The net effect of moving these 4 back onto the 20 man list and moving 4 Indians off of the list will make no difference in anything, because the 4 Indians removed, couldn't be drafted in this draft regardless, and they will move back on as the minor draft approaches.
In other words, my 20 protected were going to be protected, as they were on the list, and the other Indian prospects were (in effect) protected, because they couldn't be drafted in this draft.
Correct.
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Post by HaggsTown on Jan 14, 2008 16:19:39 GMT -5
Didn't mean to Modify/Edit your post, I meant to Quote your post.......
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Post by osbornetorun1 on Jan 14, 2008 22:16:36 GMT -5
Roster Question
I wanted to be sure to confirm the issue of DL players. If a player begins the year on the DL, can we proactively keep another player knowing this or must we first start with our roster at only 30 players (regardless of DL status). This is important because it keeps owners from stockpiling players prior to the first free agent pickup period (i.e. week 1). I already see a club that is moving players to a DL spot even before the year begins. I didn't think we allowed that type of stockpiling strategy.
Haggs, can you confirm what is and is not allowed per the rules just to be sure I understand what is permitted. This could definitely change my draft strategy these last few picks....
Thanks,
-Todd (Cards)
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