CSC Minor League Draft - Season 3 (2008)

[fantasygeek]

Got picks?


Slow day.

[wvtf]

Aaron Crow SP, Nats.

[TheCanes05]

my 2nd round pick is up for grabs.

[osbornetorun1]

Apologies for picking Fowler but Yanks had a player listed as "William Fowler" and I didn't realize the "D." was for Dexter, my bad.

So I'll repick for him. But why is my Snider pick not valid. The Bluejays didn't protect him on this roster and according to rules he should have had to protect a 2006 draft pick before we started this particular draft. And I don't see Snider on any other team (i.e. via trade) so he must be eligible to be selected. So please BEFORE ANY OTHER picks are made, please wait until I get a ruling from one of the league leaders (Haggs or Jim Elco, please explain what I'm missing here - I had to protect any of my players from Cardinals system drafted in 2006 MLB amateur draft so Snider should be completely a legit selection). If he was traded by Jays somewhere else, that team should have protected him. Unless I'm missing something, and if so please let me know, he should be a legal add to my minor league protected list via this draft.

Anyhow, I'll find a player to pick in Fowler's place. But I'd ask that the draft wait until I get a ruling on Snider.

Thanks,

Todd (Cards)

[osbornetorun1]

I don't see this player having been picked yet but please let me know if i'm wrong. From the Seattle M's system.

Pitcher: Phillippe Aumont

This takes the place of my Dexter Fowler pick.

PS. I'll await information back from Haggs or Jim about why Snider is not available. If as I believe he should be eligible, then my pick of him stands. If not, I'm up and will make my next pick immediately after the ruling. Please do NOT make another pick until this is resolved.

-Todd (Cards)

[osbornetorun1]

PS. I have a replacement pick ready so I will make that pick should I need to. I've also emailed Haggs with this same info and am awaiting his reply. Thanks for everyone's patience....

[TribeFanInAZ]

My knowledge of this league suggests that Travis Snider IS INDEED ELIGIBLE for the Cards to draft him.

This is really the reason that we have the minor league protected lists in the first place... It identifies minor leaguers from other teams that we have drafted or traded for, but it also identifies the minor leaguers from within our own franchise that we view as important players.

As commish, Haggs will make the final call, but I'm just about 100% positive that Snider is eligible based on the original rules we established.

[HaggsTown]

Guys, this is the email I sent Todd.......and I want to put it here for everyone to see and read.

Todd,

The rule you are referencing is one that was put in place for newly drafted players by an organization - it would give them one year not to have them on their protected list. It allows them to make room for them over the course of a year if necessary.

The reason we have a protected list - is when they make the majors (players from team's own organization) and have rule 7b status - if they weren't protected that 'could' allow another team to pick them up --- if they were called up.

Another reason we have protected lists is for those prospects we acquire from other organizations either via trade or draft. That way when they make the majors, they need to be on the protected list.

No team can draft (either major or minor league draft) another team's organizational prospects in the league. That has been a rule since we started this league. In the case for Snider, since he was drafted in 2006 - he didn't have to be included in the protected list until 2008 - and really where the protected list would come into place in that instance is if Snider came up in 2007 and had 130 at bats and either opened the season in 2008 on the major league roster or was called up at some point during the 08 season. So you think to yourself - it's really almost impossible to have another team take players from our own organization. Yes that is sort of true and what I think makes it good we have control over our own organizational players - if we at least keep up on things for the most part.

I hope this helps. In the off-season I'll try to clarify the rules a bit more to help understand them if necessary. There are some tweaking things that needs to be done. But honestly, I like being a part of this league - it's different. We are not full-time league commissioners and owners - so the rules and stuff can be vague or unclear - that's why we can look at different things each off-season to make the league better. Thanks.

Haggs


Listen, there have been instances in the past draft(s) where other teams incidentily drafted other team's prospects and were not allowed. We will continue that and not allow the pick.

If the rules are vague in respect to what Todd is referencing in that Snider needed to be added in 2008 to the protected list - whether he had any MLB experience or not - then I will adjust the rule setting to make it more clear ---- as this was absolutely not the intention when I set out the rules originally.

I mean, there are like 40-50 players selected each yr in the MLB draft and it's impossible to add all the good players (if we actually took time and did good research) to our protected lists - plus all the other prospects from previous year and those prospects we acquire either via trade or draft. My inentions in the rules was that never was a team allowed to 'draft' another team's own organizational prospects.

[TribeFanInAZ]

I looked back and couldn't find any evidence of a situation where we allowed "raiding" of another franchise's unprotected minor leaguer, so I'll retract my previous statements.

I guess I too misunderstood the rules here...

[fantasygeek]

Looks like it's been approx 30 hours since a pick was made. Could somebody please tell us who's on the clock?

[zemtech]

I agree if this draft takes any longer, I'm going to start drafting little leaguers!!!

[HaggsTown]

Yankees are on the clock and Angels are on deck.

[osbornetorun1]

We haven't been able to raid because people have protected their picks on time according to the rule. Sorry Haggs, but I completely disagree. I sent you an email reply but I'll post it here as well. If your approach is true, there is zero need for teams to have been posting their own franchise's amateur draft picks by year. Yet everyone has done so. Why? Because we all know after 2 years we must protect our own players who are highly rated and who have been drafted 2 years previous or before. My best example is you yourself. The Mets team has Eddie Kunz on it's 16-man protected list. He's no where near passing rookie eligibility rules yet you put him on your list. You did so to protect him. Otherwise you'd have no reason to put him there. Jim Elco and I discussed this in detail last year that's why I've been eyeing Snider from the start of this year to see if he'd be added back.

The 20-man protected lists have many examples of a team's own players on them, just look at every single franchise in this league. Sorry, but just because I'm the guy who figured out a way to get a nice player from another franchise doesn't make it wrong. In fact I believe the evidence is quite clear as to why this is fair and equitable for me to be awarded Snider.

I won't make a big deal of this but fair is fair. Jim and you have both made decisions in this league. It's a split in this case. So I'm asking you to really look at the evidence and change your opinion in this case.

I'll make an alternate pick to move the draft forward. But I still believe in this instance that the logic and the evidence substantiates my pick to be fair and legal.

I'll take Chris Tillman, Orioles. I have to double check that he's not on somebody's minor league team. So let me go take a quick look.....

Thanks for your consideration and for allowing me to respond with a very different opinion about the rules in this case. An opinion shared by Jim who I've often used as a guide to figure out the rules in this league.

-Todd (Cards)

[osbornetorun1]

Haggs, I'm a stubborn SOB. So I'm not going to let this go so easily. Sorry for being a problem, but I just looked at your minor league protected roster and it absolutely substantiates and makes my case very clearly. You have at least 6 Mets minor league prospects (all top prospects to be sure) on your minor league protected roster. And you even have their actual MLB draft dates by them so you clearly must've had a reason for doing so. Yes, because you knew they had to be protected the spring 2 years after their draft date (i.e. 2006 amateur draft players must be protected, regardless of which franchise they are on, by spring of 2008). Everyone has this clearly marked on their minor league roster posts. So your sudden change of mind on this rule simply rings false. You are not even accurately portraying the rule as you yourself followed it.

You would have no reason to put the players draft dates next to their names if you did NOT have to protect them. I guess I originally wasn't even going to bother to debate this but when I looked at your very own team, it just verified that my understanding has in fact been correct for the past 3 years! Therefore, I absolutely don't agree that the rules should be changed just because somehow one GM found a nice player who was not correctly protected by his GM.

If you can really explain to everyone why we've all been doing this wrong since the start, yourself included, then just assign Tillman to my team and I won't say another word. But in the spirit of fair play I guess I just don't accept the explanation you've outlined here.

Sorry for being a nag but the facts are the facts as I see them in this particular case.

PS. One of the main reasons why I wanted the pick was because of Snider being available. But that's not such a big deal frankly since I like a lot of players here.

-Todd (Cards)

[TheCanes05]

You go Todd, Let it all out. With that said the Yankees select....ETHAN MARTIN, injured 3b/rhp, Stephens County HS, Toccoa, Ga.

Good Luck to all.

J.C.

[wvtf]

Todd, we have never drafted from other owned franchises in this league. I was confused by this last year and tried to take A. Cab.
from winker because he was left off his 16 man protected list. Let me add some text from the season three keeper thread, it's pretty clear there, I believe.
____________________________________________________
4.) We will only be holding a 4-round Minor League draft in Seasons 2, 3, and beyond... The draft pool for the Minors Draft includes:

Un-owned prospects from Un-owned franchises (e.g., Diamondbacks prospects that were not owned last year and/or not on someone’s protected list)
____________________________________________________


IMO there are a couple benefits of the protected list. One is to protect players in case of trade. Example if the Rays traded W. Davis to the Cards for R. Ludwick, I would lose my rights to Davis, unless he was protected. And to protect players from being taken as FA by other owners who could request a player if not on the list. As per the following also in the season three minor league keeper thread.
____________________________________________________

6.) Any unprotected players from owned franchises may be obtained by another team, with approval. The franchise owner has the first option to protect the desired player (thereby "un-protecting" another prospect). Haggstown has decided that you may only acquire an owned franchise's unprotected prospect ONCE during a given season, so use this option wisely.
____________________________________________________

Now, why this list needs to be done prior to the minor league draft, I don't know, as I don't see a connection between the protected list to the draft.

My suggestion would be to repost the rules in a separate rules thread where they're easy to find and maybe pin them at the top.

Just a thought.